Melbourne, Thursday 2 February 1939

[Mr. Lawrence questioning] Were you one of the persons who located the relics of the men who lost their lives?
No. The location of the deceased was intimated to me. I went out with a party and helped to bring them in.

Your attention was drawn to where they had died?
Yes.

How many of these persons lost their lives?
Twelve.

At the mills?
None right at the mill sites.

How far were they from the mills?
Four men were found on the tram track to No. 3 mill, and they would be a quarter of a mile from the mill site, on the track down to the Tin Hut. At No. 2 mill, the deceased would be approximately one and three quarter miles from the mill site.

Did that signify to your mind the fact that the men at the time were not within reach of the shelter of the dug-outs?
Yes, with regard to no. 2 mill, they would not be within reach of the dug-out. At No. 3 mill, I understand they were leaving the mill to make for safety at the Tin hut.

[Mr. Andrewartha, appearing in place of Mr. Kelso] How far were the huts at which these men were camped from the various mills?
They were practically right at the mills, and some would be only about 20 yards from the nearest point to the mills. It may be a little further, but not very much.

What was the condition of the country around the huts?
Close to the huts around the mills, it was all right, with the exception of the road camp huts. Definitely they were in amongst the scrub or the lighter timber – saplings 2 inch, 3 inch or 4 inches across.

Do you think it was possible for these men to have reached the dug-outs in safety?
Men working at the mill should have been able to get to the dug-out, because they definitely were not in scrub.

What about the men in the huts, could they be trapped?
No, I should think they would have time to get to the dug-outs. They were only a few yards from the dug-outs.

What is your view of the construction of the dug-outs; were they capable of accommodating the whole of the people there?
It depends on how long they would have to be there. I think they could be enlarged.

What is the general depth of a dug-out?
From 7 foot 6 inches to 8 foot. They were dug into the side of the hill. It was not a very steep hill where they happened to be. One dug-out had an arm going down into the ground and then built up from the edge where the level of the earth was. It was built up with stone and earth with an iron roof supported by timber, and earth on top of the iron roof.

What was the depth of the earth there on the roof?
On one that was remaining, from parts of the edges of the iron it would be only about 6 inches, but it would go up to about 2 feet of earth.

What was the door comprised of?
The door of No. 2 dug-out showed that stone work had been placed from the ground to the roof, but wood work showed at the edge of the door.

Are you a returned soldier?
Yes.

What did you think about the German dug-outs, when compared with some of the dug-outs at the mills?
The German concrete dug-outs – well, they were dug-outs. You would be safe in dug-outs of that description? – I am positive about that.

[Mr. Gowans] You would not suggest that it is necessary to construct a bomb proof shelter at each mill?
It is not necessary at all, but I think there could be a very great improvement in the dug-outs. In relation to the present Rubicon fire, everybody who sheltered in a dug-out was saved.

I understand that you have taken a photograph of a hole at the No. 2 Winch that has been described as a dug-out?
Yes.

[The Commissioner]: Was it burnt?
Yes, it was not completed. I do not think there was a roof on it before it was burnt.

It was always as it now stands?
Yes, except that the timbers are charred and fallen.

[Mr. Gowans]: That is at the spot where the eight men were burnt?
They were near there. There were three men actually near that place and five others within 50 yards of it.

Read more about how dug-out's could have saved lives on Black Friday in the Oral History section